DIY: Motor Mount Injection

[blueroadster]

Here are the DIY instructions for injecting your motor mounts to stiffen them up to reduce engine torque, wheel hop, etc.

Materials needed:

1. Stock Bottom Torque Rod Part Number: 50890-SVB-A02
2. Stock Dogbone Torque Rod Part Number: 50880-SVB-A02
3. Urethane to Inject the Mounts: I used 3M Window Weld (65A shore grade hardness).
4. Caulk Gun: Used for injecting the 3M Window Weld urethane.
5. Rubbing Alcohol: Used to clean the stock mounts, your hands, and any other items that the 3M Window Weld comes into contact with.
6. Razor Blade: Used to cut out the excess rubber on each stock motor mount.
7. Putty Knife: Used to smooth the 3M Window Weld after applying to each stock motor mount.
8. Paper or Plastic Plate: For making rings on the stock motor mounts to prevent the urethane from bleeding out the other side.
9. Tape: To secure the paper or plastic ring to each motor mount.

Procedures:

Here is a PIC of the two engine torque rods (upper and lower) where urethane will be injected:



Use a razor blade and cut out the excess rubber on the inside of the stock motor mounts so that the injection material adheres better (also cut off the little nubs protruding from the surface). Once complete, clean the entire rubber mount with rubbing alcohol to remove grease, etc.



Use a paper or plastic plate and cut a ring to install on one side of each mount like in the below PIC.



Use some tape to secure the ring to each mount to prevent the injection material from exiting the other side.



Flip each stock motor mount over and inject with 3M Window Weld using a caulk gun. When doing so, jam the tip of the 3M Window Weld in each corner and fill until it bleeds up to the top and slowly pull up when filling (this will reduce air pockets). Once you have injected one of the mounts, use a putty knife to smooth the surface and then do the same thing to the other mount. This is also a good time to clean your hands and anything else with rubbing alcohol and a rag. Once the first mount is done, follow the same steps with the second mount. Once complete, both mounts should look like the ones in the below PIC.



Let the parts sit for at least 24 hours to start curing. Once complete, remove the tape shown in the fourth PIC. You can then also peel off the excess urethane as can be seen in the below PIC:



Below is a PIC of both mounts completed.



Here is a PIC of the back side of each mount.



At this point, you should wait about another 24 hours before removing the rings that were installed in the third PIC. Here is a PIC showing the rings after being removed (some of the 3M Window Weld did not dry and was stuck to the back of each ring):



Next, apply more 3M Window Weld where the rings have been removed and smooth the surface with a putty knife. Here is a PIC:



Finally, wait several more days for the urethane to fully cure (I'd suggest letting them cure for about 5-7 more days until you are certain that they are good to go), peel off any excess urethane, and then install the mounts on your car.
When installing the mounts, use the following images to acquire the torque specifications.

Upper Torque Rod:



Lower Torque Rod:

NEED TO FIND AN IMAGE

[Sirbelch]

Thats bad ass. Where did you get the 3m stuff? Did you buy extra motor mounts or did you just use your own cause you got lots of extra cars laying around? How do they feel in the car. I know it will increase NVH levels but is it a lot?

[blueroadster]

Thats bad ass. Where did you get the 3m stuff? Did you buy extra motor mounts or did you just use your own cause you got lots of extra cars laying around? How do they feel in the car. I know it will increase NVH levels but is it a lot?

You can get the 3M Window Weld stuff at a local auto parts/distribution store or online. It costs about $25 a tube where one tube is enough to do about three mounts. I bought another set of mounts but have yet to inject them (I actually have two sets now that I'll be doing soon though). The set in the PIC was sold to MDCivic07. The build on his car should be completed soon where he can provide feedback.

I have heard that the typical stock motor mount is of a 55A shore grade hardness (I'd imagine that is true for our torque rod mounts as well since they are rubber inserts and are not very hard). I'd recommend using 3M Window Weld for injecting the mounts because of the shore grade hardess. Here is a list of materials that could be used from softest to hardest:

1. Silicone
2. Urethane (ex. PL Roofing)
3. 3M Window Weld (65A shore grade hardness) (most commonly used for motor mount injection)
4. Devcon Flexane 80 Liquid
5. Quicksteel (85A shore grade hardness)
6. Devcon Flexane 94 Liquid Resin (95A shore grade hardness)
7. Epoxy

Also, here are a few links to other DIY's for reference:

1. S14 motor mounts using Devcon Flexane 94 Liquid Resin
2. Motor mount inserts
3. Motor mount injection using 3M Window Weld

[Sirbelch]

How much did the mounts cost?

[blueroadster]

How much did the mounts cost?

About $120 new. Here is a link where you'll need to order items six and seven.

[GlxyGry06Si]

so we only have 2 mm's?

[confusedxpanda]

This will be on my list of "to-do" things thanks blue!

[blueroadster]

so we only have 2 mm's?

There are actually five mounts on the motor. Three are considered motor mounts and the remaining two (top dogbone and lower rear) are referred to as torque rods.

[confusedxpanda]

taken from the "other" site--innovative motor mounts

The ones in the [below] PICs are of the three stock motor mount replacements made by Innovative. Innovative has yet to make replacements for the two stock torque rods which IMHO should have been the first area of focus and thus covered in this DIY.

[blueroadster]

The ones in the above PICs are of the three stock motor mount replacements made by Innovative. Innovative has yet to make replacements for the two stock torque rods which IMHO should have been the first area of focus and thus covered in this DIY.

[blueroadster]

The torque rods pictured in this thread were installed on 07CivicMD's car. He said that he is very pleased with the way they are working. The torquing of the engine under load has drastically reduced and there was only a minimal increase of vibrations transferred.

If you are looking to reduce engine torque, this mod is your best bet and will save you a lot of money as compared to installing the Ingalls ETD and/or Stiffy.

[Sirbelch]

I sooo need to do this. Wait, is the DIY of the torque rods and the aftermarket pics of the motor mounts? Im confused.

[blueroadster]

Yea, the DIY is for the torque rods and the aftermarket PICs were of the three motor mounts (they basically did the wrong ones).

In any event, I had a ride in Roger's car today and not only is it stupid fast, but the mounts are working out great. I honestly could tell no increase in vibrations transferred; it was just like stock.

[Sirbelch]

That is some sweet news.

[ihockey1]

Followed the DIY and injected my mounts, and after taking it to the track a couple times I can say that there is no wheel hop and overall response is better

[GlxyGry06Si]

from what i have heard the other mounts that innovative did not make replacement mounts for are notorious to break when they are stiffened. I think its the one hooked to the oil pan?

[ihockey1]

the one hooked to the oil pan is the lower tq mount

[blueroadster]

from what i have heard the other mounts that innovative did not make replacement mounts for are notorious to break when they are stiffened. I think its the one hooked to the oil pan?

I'm glad that you mentioned that.

IMHO, I do not buy Innovative's explaination at all since they are trying to sell a product and their explaination actually does not make logical sense. Let me explain...

Background:

As defined in the shop manual, our cars have three "motor mounts" and two "torque rods."

For the three motor mounts, the primary function of two of them (the ones on the driver and passenger sides) are meant to support the weight of the engine and transmission. The third motor mount on the front mid section of the engine does not carry the weight of the engine or transmission since it is mainly used to keep those parts tilted to the proper angle when everything is assembled.

The primary function the two torque rods is to limit the twisting of the engine when under load (that is why there is one at the top high point and another on the bottom low point).

Discussion:

The below statements are my opinion of course.

Innovative Mounts:

Innovative came up with an expensive solution that did not focus on replacing the proper parts. The primary function of two of the mounts that their solution replaces is to support the weight of the engine and transmission. The third mount that their solution replaces is not in a location that can effectively limit the engine's twisting motion under load.

So how do their three motor mount replacements limit the engine from twisting under load? By using beefy brackets and very small polyurethane bushings that are extremely stiff. If you install these replacement mounts, then I'd bet that you will get a lot more vibrations transferred. In addition, the two stock torque rods that are in the perfect location to control the engine's twisting motion will no longer be subjected to the same level of stress as when the stock motor mounts are installed.

With the amount that the Innovative motor mount replacements limit the engine's twisting motion, they could have achieved the exact same result by using a softer material (other than polyurethane) and offering a replacement for the two stock torque rods instead. I'd bet they the know this and opted to scare the public into not doing anything to the two torque rods and buying their solution instead.

As for the cracked oil pan, have you ever heard of anyone (other than Innovative's claim) that has an Si and had an issue as a result of injecting or installing replacement torque rods? The only instance where I could see an issue with the oil pan is if you only did something to the lower torque rod. In that circumstance, the lower torque rod would be subjected to a lot more stress since the top torque rod would not have been modified at the same time. If you modify both torque rods at the same time, then they would share the stress evenly just as in the stock configuration. FWIW, 07CivicMD has had these injected torque rods on his car ever since his build was completed and has not had any issues with them. His car is pushing over 650hp and has been to the track and dyno numerous times. For those that are still concerned about the oil pan, you could also inject the front motor mount for added piece of mind.

I also have opinions on the other options out there, but think the above is a good enough explaination for now.

[Si2Typ3R]

Im all about DIYs but this is one that I would rather just buy a set. How much would you charge to do a pair for me Eric if I provided the torque rods?

[Moose]

Well this weekend I finally installed a set of "Blues" injected torque rods.

Nice !!!!! the shifts feel firmer, and the car feels "better" off the line.

At Idle there is a bit more vibration (mostly in the pedals) and as you lug off the line in 1st you can feel / heard a bit more shake and vibration, but it is not objectional to me .... I actually like this as before the car felt "distant" ....now I can better feel what the car is doing


Upper mount install was a breeze ... The lower was a bit of a pig as it is tight in there .... Rolling the motor out of the way, with a prybar to provide clearance to drop the mount was a bit pain (not tough, just a bit annoying) . I "Suspect" in retrospect that If I removed completely the upper torque-mount .... there wuld have been less resistance to roll, and would have made the lower mount go a bit easier.



THANKS AGAIN "Blue"


Moose